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Topic: Community Spit-Balling Domestic Testing Best Practices
stat Member
posted 02-11-2008 09:20 PM
Let's assemble some pointers for running fidelity tests. I doubt any such list or public spit-balling has been compiled elsewhere----so why not here?
* I think testing in people's homes is just begging for trouble. Can we agree on this one? Ted? Anyone?
* Can we agree that the payers should be told that there are diagnostic questions that are not relevant---and will not find home in a report. (control questions and bleeding to them such as having sexual fantasies of other people.)
* Can we agree that all domestic tests be required to be video taped?
* Can we agree that all domestic tests that involve female examinees be witnessed at the attachment of the components event-----even though there is video?
* Can we agree that multiple issue test requests be met with official caution as those tests are not taken to be as accurate as single issue tests? Must a marriage and family future be dependant on a multiple issue test(?)----as the APA guidelines do not recommend such emphatic trust over such tests.
* So we don't want to get in the business of counseling eh? Fair nuff. How about a pamphlet for couples that explains "what should we do with these results?" "Should I divorce my husband if he fails his test?" "Is my examiner single and available for dating?" (ok, kidding there) Better yet, have the parties sign a form stating that they received the document. Too often I have seen couples beleive that they are prepared for the results, only to find themselves stunned and even devastated at the realities (or at least the realities at 90% accuracy.) We could use a document written by a licensed therapist who is also an examiner to offer sound advice----so as to negate the Dr. Phil pop therapy we examiners find ourselves being pushed towards.
[This message has been edited by stat (edited 02-11-2008).]
posted 02-11-2008 10:37 PM
FYI: I AM NOT YELLING, I AM JUST DIFFERENTIATING BETWEEN ERICS POST AND MY ANSWERS.
Let's assemble some pointers for running fidelity tests. I doubt any such list or public spit-balling has been compiled elsewhere----so why not here? AND IF WE GET A CONSENSUS, WE SHOULD APPROACH APA AND AAPP WITH A PROPOSED PLAN!
* I think testing in people's homes is just begging for trouble. Can we agree on this one? Ted? YES I ALSO THINK DOING FIDELITY EXAMS IN HOTEL ROOMS IS A NO NO!
* Can we agree that the payers should be told that there are diagnostic questions that are not relevant---and will not find home in a report. (control questions and bleeding to them such as having sexual fantasies of other people.) I THINK WE CAN JUST LET THEM KNOW THAT THE TOPIC/ISSUE WE ARE TESTING FOR (DY HAVE SEX W/ANYONE OTHER THAN YOUR SIGNIFICAN OTHER/DURING YOUR RELATIONSHIP) WILL BE THE ONLY ISSUE IN THE REPORT. IF THEY MARRIED SOMEONE, THEIR HISTORY BEFORE THE MARRIAGE SHOULD ALSO BE OFF LIMITS!
* Can we agree that all domestic tests be required to be video taped? HELL YEAH!!!! WOULDN’T DO AN EXAM THAT WAS NOT RECORDED (EXCEPT PRE-EMP AND I AM ABOUT TO RECORD THEM AS WELL EVEN THOUGH IT IS NOT REQUIRED IN UT)!
* Can we agree that all domestic tests that involve female examinees be witnessed at the attachment of the components event-----even though there is video? NO. I THINK VIDEO TAPING IS APPROPRIATE AND IS AVAILABLE IF ANY WRONG DOING IS ACCUSED / MENTIONED. WHAT ABOUT THE MEN I TEST??? I INFORM THEM I WILL PROVIDE A WRITTEN REPORT TO THEIR THERAPIST – THAT IS ALL THEY GET. NOW IF THE THERAPIST WANTS TO REVIEW THE VIDEO – OKAY.
* Can we agree that multiple issue test requests be met with official caution as those tests are not taken to be as accurate as single issue tests? Must a marriage and family future be dependent on a multiple issue test(?)----as the APA guidelines do not recommend such emphatic trust over such tests. I AGREE
* So we don't want to get in the business of counseling eh? Fair nuff. How about a pamphlet for couples that explains "what should we do with these results?" "Should I divorce my husband if he fails his test?" "Is my examiner single and available for dating?" (ok, kidding there) Better yet, have the parties sign a form stating that they received the document. Too often I have seen couples believe that they are prepared for the results, only to find themselves stunned and even devastated at the realities (or at least the realities at 90% accuracy.) We could use a document written by a licensed therapist who is also an examiner to offer sound advice----so as to negate the Dr. Phil pop therapy we examiners find ourselves being pushed towards. I AM NOT A COUNSELOR. HOWEVER, I DO THINK WE SHOULD HAVE REQUIREMENTS THAT A PROFESSIONAL/THERAPIST SHOULD BE INVOLVED PRIOR TO THE EXAM AND IN DESEMINATING THE RESULTS. THE PAMPHLET IS A GREAT IDEA!
E – YOU ARE FULL OF GREAT IDEAS! WHY THE HECK ARE YOU RETIRING FROM POLYS?
posted 02-11-2008 10:52 PM
Donna, I am aware of complaints toward examiners by women who stated that they were groped during the test (i assume during the pneumo attachment) and I will not test without a physical witness----as the video angle cannot show the precise amount of contact with a women's breasts.Paranoid? Shoot yeah.
p.s. I am not retiring. I am on a break, and I am "looking" at other professions. Think of it like dating around. I am in school, and I will make a professional move in the winter of '08. I will definetly not be traveling all over the state chasing $100 bills, racking up what could amount to be useless professional experience, and not being able to afford healthcare. It's very $imple.
p.s.s. I have heard from several people in my little network that times are tough in the poly world---all over the country. I am always happy to strap myself into a race car, but I will never chain myself to a rock. I have given myself 11 months to decide if the polygraph profession is sinking.
[This message has been edited by stat (edited 02-11-2008).]
posted 02-12-2008 09:48 AM
Great ideas Eric and Donna.
I agree with this homes and hotels are out.
I'm with Donna on the witness/video thing. I also NEVER put pneumo components on female subjects. I have them stand up facing the camera. I show them on myself how to put it on their lower body area and upper body area. Then I hand them the component and walk behind them (behind the chair) and hand them the chain without ever touching them. Then they sit down and hold their arm up while I attach the cuff, in full view of the camera. If possible I'll walk back behind the desk, and reach across the desk to attach the cuff. I will have already attached the EDA sensors.
I wouldn't spell it out completely regarding the diagnostic questions. I's leave it as "the referring professional will be informed in wriging of the investigation targets, question language, answers, and results." Then the later argument with pushy persons is that other questions are not investigation targets but procedural questions during the examinations.
Not videotaping in today's world is rediculous and would speak only to underhandedness. There is no excuse for 18 minutes of missing tape, lost emails, or a non-recorded test, interrogation or even interview. Storage space is dirt cheap. The only reason someone wouldn't record something is that they want to hide something.
The multi-facet mixed issues test thing is rather easy to get off track with. When we start saying things like "caution" at any official level, its very important to understand the boundaries of what we do and don't know about why those should be met with caution. This is a long topic. The short of it is that the single issue exam, regarding a known allegation provides the most robust diagnostic accuracy.
I like the pamphlet FAQ idea, but it would be preferrable for the polygraph profession as a whole to better align itself with other professions around this issue. I'm all for requirements for a therapist/counselor referral. To neglect this is to begin to legitimize accusations that the polygraph profession is a isolated cloister of unprofessional practicioners of some pseudo-science. We either play in the same sandbox with other science based professions, or we close the gate and play in our own isolated sandbox distinct from other sciences and professions.
.02
r
------------------ "Gentlemen, you can't fight in here. This is the war room." --(Stanley Kubrick/Peter Sellers - Dr. Strangelove, 1964)
[This message has been edited by rnelson (edited 02-12-2008).]
posted 02-12-2008 10:16 AM
Ray, your little icon....is it directed at me???? I said I wasn't yelling, I just can't get colors, different fonts, or italic to work to separate my comments. I guess I didn't need to copy the post...oh well.
BTW you guys are real sensitive about female body parts. At the next convention if you promise not to intentionally grope, you can practice putting the pnuemos on me! It isn't difficult. I have tested many women and not once have I accidentally touched their breasts...then again, I am not completely fasinated by them..lol
Once, I tested a real tall guy and as you all know I am 6 ft tall and I tripped on his foot and landed in his lap. Thank god the video was on. We both survived. Bottom line - video your exams!
posted 02-12-2008 10:19 AM
I have ran a test or two in Hotel conference rooms. I think that is fitting----although I recall a time when a housekeeper kept firing up the sweeper right outside the door. Probably bothered me more than the examinee.
No private rooms.
I think a brief contract agreement regarding domestic abuse would be fitting.
Legalese has never been my strong suit, but a Consent form clause that addresses domestic abuse (after results) would be fitting. Most examiners have a clause regarding "threats or promises of any kind"---but probably don't address threats or violenc after the test---and consequential violence.
This whole thing (fidelity best practices)feels silly really. It's like attempting to legitimize a predatory paycheck advance business so that all are safe and ethical. It just feels counterintuative.I dunno.
posted 02-12-2008 10:27 AM
Donna, the vast majority of females I have tested have been female sex offenders. These are creatures that are so desperate to start S______ in order to distract from their (ahem) activities (most are sex addicts) that I have had to pull more than one video as they are so inclined to triangulate and claim that they were verbally abused. You know the type---lie about everything, cry at the drop of a hat female sex offender. I have always maintained that female sex offenders are the worst manipulators, worst liers, and most triangulative species of criminal of all. Lucky they are such poor liars and reletively harmless (compared to many of the predatory men.)
posted 02-12-2008 10:31 AM
You are right about the female criminals being very manipulative. Would much rather supervise a man than a woman. We don't have many convicted female sex offenders in Utah. Most my dealings with females has been Pre-Employment issues.
posted 02-12-2008 07:52 PM
I'm going to contact my ol' pal Brad Kelly, a man who has ran thousands of domestics/fedelities. I bet he'll have some pointers.
So, if you have 3 kids, is it the law that one of them must puke every 3 months? I swear you could set the Mayan calender by it.
posted 02-12-2008 09:42 PM
Finally, more graphics. Can you believe that guy could stand to wear that many necklaces? He must not have had any of those menacing neck skin tags or crazy hairs like me. It would be a bloody mess. (lol)
[This message has been edited by stat (edited 02-12-2008).]
posted 02-13-2008 09:07 AM
Kids and puking....yep, at least every 3 months! Funny thing (not about puking) is when my son was about 2 I took him to day care and he had his crying fit...he was desperately holding on to my arm blubbering...making me feel guilty for leaving him. I arrived at work..not knowing that I had a huge slobber snot ball down my jacket sleeve. The poor bastard that pointed it out to me damn near fell over when I saw it and told him I didn't have a tissue and acted like I was going to wipe my nose on my other (clean) arm.
Okay another funny. I am at the store check out. A horrible smell began to infect that area. I looked at the cashier, the cashier looked at me and she started to get a bit pink in the face. My son finally blurts out 'ma, I farted' (I knew it wsa him). With a straight face I looked at the cashier and said 'its a good thing he admitted it cuz I thought it was you'. The poor lady handed me my change and couldn't look me in the face and laughed all the way out of the store.
posted 02-13-2008 09:29 AM
I had all sisters. I was hit by that fountain of youth on the first changing! Its a good thing I am a quick learner. Also for those with wee ones, don't change the diaper if their nostrils have a yellowish tint...its a great indication of that fountain!(true)
posted 02-13-2008 09:33 AM
I got sick last night, now the 1 yr old has it. Wife is next. I am calling it the "Obama flu of '08". It isn't as bad as the "2006 Christmas Flu", but it ranks up there. It seems to be more Montezuma's revenge, and less Exorcist for me personally.
I share your pain. I bought a fully loaded (leather interior) pick up truck a few months ago. My ten month old grandson saw that it was immediately inducted into the "Hurl of Fame" ! Ah yes.......nothing like that new car smell.
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posted 02-11-2008 09:20 PM
